Re: [glosalist] "Gene" e "ge-"

At 04:04 AM 2/18/04 +0100, Igor Wasilewski grafo:

Manuel pa grafo:

Mi = ne nu ski komo mi pote korekti translati un “Hab=EDa una vez” alo un “Er= ase una vez” ad Glosa. In mi auto translati, mi pa elekti “Mo kron, pa e= s u regi” (Es: “Una vez hubo un rey”). Mi pa uti u “,” te nota ko ma din= a ke u “Mo kron” ne es u nima (alo subjeti) de un akti-verba “pa es”.

Mi= doxo; plus un expresi “uno-kron” sio pote es boni ci. *** Akorda, ~u kron= ,~ ~mo kron~ e ~uno kron~ habe plu difere semani. Plus, mi kredi u hifen= inter u bi verbi de u finali forma dona u poko difere ad id semani.

u kr= on =3D a time, the time mo kron =3D one time, once uno kro= n =3D once(mystically), one time(in the distant past), once upon a t= ime uno-kron =3D (at) one time, (there was) a time

P.S. Plura-te= m mi fu uti ~uno-tem~ iso un alterna-ra de ~uno-kron.~

De “gene” e “ge-“:=

Manuel pa grafo:

Mi pa vide; poli glosa-pe ma-amo uti “U fenestra gene= ge-frakti”, sed mi ma-amo uti “U fenestra gene frakti”. Qo-ka? Ka u gen= e-mode es solo u muta in u frase struktura; qi ne muta u semani, e seqe-= co mi puta; id debi habe facili muta regula. U muta regula:

*** Mi = uti u /gene ge-X/ forma ka id eqa puri Ron Clark Glosa. Plus id don u ma = exakti semani. E id perfekti mapa un uti de no-akti voka [passive voic= e] de England-lingua. He ate the cheese. - An pa = fago u kasea. The cheese was eaten by him - U kasea pa gene ge-fa= go ex an.

He eats the cheese.                  -    An fago u kasea.  =    The cheese is eaten by him.      -    U kasea gene ge-fago ex an.

H= e will eat the cheese.              -    An fu fago u kasea.
The cheese=  will be eaten by him. -   U kasea fu gene ge-fago ex an.

Un infanti pa= frakti u fenestra <—-> U fenestra pa gene frakti ex un infanti.

= es ma facili de un hetero muta regula:

Un infanti pa frakti u fene= stra <—-> U fenestra pa gene ge-frakti ex un infanti.

*** Id es s= o: na pote dice ~pa gene frakti~ ko ma facili de ~pa gene ge-frakti.~

= E u-ci simpli forma fu esce u norma uti pro Glosa … sed id eqa u ge-= elide forma! U puri expresi de u no-akti voka fu es holo-tem un origi for= ma; qi inkludi plu bi muta - iso England-lingua. 98% de uti fu es u ge-el= ide forma, sed pro fo exakti expresi, e intra diskursi de filosofi, plu-pe= fu uti u kompleti forma.

qi habe bi elementa muta vice mo! Sura, id f= eno ma natura pro poli de na; qi dice uno indo-europea lingua, sed id es= ma komplexi! *** Sed, intra plu fo simpli verbi, te dice ke ~gene frakti= ~ es u kompleti forma sio es in ero. Id eqa solo mo mero de un expresi:

= frakti =3D brake ge-frakti =3D brake-ed, got-broke, broken gene= =3D get, gets pa gene =3D did get, got gene frakti =3D gets brake*= , gets broken(elided) gene ge-frakti =3D gets broken ( un-elided: rare= ly-used)

Plus mi prefere dice “gene frakti” vice “gene ge-frakti”. Glos= a es u lingua, qi habe u buta: panto-tem akti uti u maxi mega simpli stru= ktura ge-nece pro logi. Kausa-co id es ma boni te expresi u pragma tem ut= i mei verba. *** Intra plu komunita de England-lingua-dice-pe, na habe un = expresi, ~laxi uti~ [lazy usage], e u-ci pote es ge-deskribe iso rura ling= ua:-

~Jed pa tem-uti u foru-ru, sed id gene fraki.~ “ Jed borrowed t= he plough, but it got broke.”

Anti-co id plus pote es so; plu pe, qi ut= i u morfo “gene ge-frakti” posi volu face u difere inter un akti ge-fini= e akti ne-ge-fini. Ci mi dice de u struktura klari ge-monstra in Espera= nto - plu verba-fini “-ata” e “-ita”. *** Plu Glosa partikla-de-tem [tense= particles] ergo per difere mode de plu-la adi-ra [inflections] de Esperan= to.

She washes the dog.                  Fe lavo u kani.
The dog i= s washed by her.           U kani gene ge-lavo ex fe.

She is washing t= he dog.               Fe du lavo u kani.
The dog is being washed by her= .   U kani du gene ge-lavo ex fe.

Reali, Glosa ko id morfo “ge-“ ne monst= ra; qe pe dice de un akti ge-fini alo ne-ge-fini. Posi id ne habe ta impo= rta, ka pe postula; a qo speci pragma u tema habe relati. Homo exempla na= pote dice: “ge-lekto bibli”, sed id ne monstra ko klari; qe uno-pe pre-n= u pa fini lekto u-ci bibli alo solo lekto id nu-tem, ko-co a-nu habe uno = numera pagina ad u fini de u bibli. In Esperanto: “libro legata” e “libro= legita”. U holo frase: “La libro estas legata”. “La libro estas legita”. = *** E so, mi pa refere a “The Esperanto Teacher” ex Mason Stuttard. Sine v= o dice ali-ra; qi habe u sono de kritici, u

-as, -is, -os  //  -ita, -= ata, -ota

sistema este excesi komplexi.

Bil reads a book. = Bil lekto u bibli. A book is read by Bil. U bibli gene = ge-lekto ex Bil.

Bil is reading a book.            Bil du lekto u bibl= i.
A book is being read by Bil.   U bibli du gene ge-lekto ex Bil.

= P.S. U ge-elide forma, ~U bibli du gene lekto ex Bil,~ habe korekti, sed = uno-pe spe ke u dice-pe ski u raisona pro u-ci.

Per qo mode pe pote dice= id te monstra u difere? “U bibli gene lekto”/”U bibli gene ge-lekto”? Si= vi habe ski de uno boni solve de u-ci pragma in Glosa, place grafo de id. = *** Mi nu dice de u pusi mero de Glosa pa-histori. To mo kron, Ron Clark =

pa anuncio, na nece habe bi partikla te deskribe plu previo evena.

p= a =3D did ….. (simpli previo tem) pra =3D had ….. (perfekti prev= io tem: un eveni; qi gene ge-kompleti pre nu, alo _ = pre u hetero eveni de u pa tem)

   Mi spe u-ci dona g= ru responde ad u qestio ex Igor.  Pro mi, u 'pra'  partikla  sio debi gene = ge-uti, te dona u difere inter plu-ci difere versio  de u pa-tem.  Ron  eli= mina 'pra'  ka an puta id sio kausa excesi dificili  pro plu gene-sko-pe.

= Exempla: Mari pa lekto Meri 1, e seqe, fe pa lekto Mero 2. [= Mari read Part 1, and then she read Part 2.]

N.B. Mari pa lekto Meri 1, e= seqe, fe lekto Mero 2. (norma ge-elide forma] [ “ “ “ = “ “ “ “ “ “ “ ]

Sed: Mari pa lekto Meri 1, e = seqe, fe nu lekto Mero 2. [Mari read Part 1, and following (that), s= he now reads Part 2.]

So. Mari pa lekto u prima bibli. … Mari rea= d the first book. U prima bibli pa gene ge lekto ex Mari. The fir= st book was read by Mari.

      Mari pra lekto u prima bibli.   ...  = Mari had read the first book.
    U prima bibli pra gene ge lekto ex Ma= ri.  ...
                                     The first book had been r= ead by  Mari.

   Qe, Mari pra lekto Mero 1 pre fe pa lekto Mero 2?    =
               [Had Mari read Part 1 before she read Part 2?]

    = Ben pa skope mero tri de u filma, sed ne pa skope plu mero mo alo bi.
 =   [Ben saw part three of the film, but has not seen parts one or two.]

= Ben pra skope mero tri de u filma, pre an pa skope plu mero mo e bi. = [Ben had seen part three of the film, before he saw parts one and two= .]

     Mero tri de u filma pra gene ge skope ex Ben pre plu mero mo e=  bi  pa gene ge-skope ex an.
    [Part three of the film had been seen = by Ben before parts one and  two were seen by him.]

Saluta, Robin Gaskel= l P.S. It is obvious I like “pra” and see a place for it. I believe it =

should be recalled from the Glosa vault, posthumously. R.