zhenyu..there is so much to explain about the perceptions that europeans h= ave of the way they read and pronounce the alphabetic writing of each of t= heir individual languages, that i could go on forever trying to say it all.= everything you mention is logical and reasonable.but people especially whe= n it comes to language ,are not logical and reasonable.you mention the yuan= dynasty,well under the emperor kublai khan a buddhist lama( Phags Pa, lead= er of the sakya monastry ,shigatse,autonomous region of tibet)invented an a= lphabetic system which became the official writing system for all of the la= nguages of the yuan empire.you can see examples of it in the museum,or if y= ou like, on the paper money of the present day republic of mongolia:it too=

was reasonable and logical. nobody liked it ,,when the ming dynasty came i= n ,it went out.lesson? you can take a horse to the water, but you can’t mak= e it drink.LOL saluta

On 26 August 2010 05:51, Zhenyu <lizhenyu_god@hotmai= l.com> wrote:

Dear Duncan, Sorry for my absence recently due to my= work and personal things getting busy!

Thanks a lot for your reply o= n my new Pinyin system. I knew earlier about what people, specially weste= rners, would think about it! The system has been considered some common r= ules of several main western languages like English, Germen, French, Span= ish, etc..

Eg: “-l” after vowels like in “al” for “a” in Down-up Tone= , derives from the English spelling such as “calm, palm, talk, Lincoln,et= c.” in which “L” doesn’t sound and can be used for the Down-up tone. In s= pite of some westerners possibly will pronounce it as “l” in the way of G= erman, Spanish, Italian, etc., which won’t make a clear influence like En= glish “l” as in “all”, Chinese native speakers won’t be confused by heari= ng the sound “l” after vowels and Chinese learners also should know “l” t= here, for tone, does not sound like “cALm, tALk, and LincOLn”

“aa” (f= or Down tone) is often used in sounding the same “a or its long sound A:”= in lots of western languages. Maybe you didn’t note that in the current = Pinyin, we take “Shaanxi Province”(west of Shanxi Province) to differ fro= m “Shanxi”, which is because the original Pinyin without tone marks in mo= st ways, functions too bad and can’t differ words in the same souds with = defferent tones! So the Government takes the only exceptional form like “= aa” to solve the CONFUSION. Tone marks are not easy to show in most ways = in reality.

“ah” (for Up tone) is often widely in western languages. Eg= : English:Fahrenheit, German: Wahl mit Qual. “H” is a non sound letter in=

almost all Romanic languages. “Ah! my god!” “Oh! dear!”

“v” for “=A8= =B9” is already used in Chinese character inputing on computer, so I use = it along the mode happened. I personally like using “eu” for “=A8=B9”, but = I worry about most Chinese people being accustomed in using “v”.

Sa= luta! Lil Zheenyul(Li Zhenyu)

— In glosalist@yahoogroups.com <glosa= list%40yahoogroups.com>, chris duncan krisdunncan@... wrote:

zh= enyu…your new system for tones in pinyin by using letters of the alph= abet rather than tone marks above each word does not work for westerners = ….the reason ?…every time a westerner sees a letter of the alphabet=

he

wants to give it the sound it has as either a consonant or vowel = in that alphabet eg: n.i.l.m.e.n. he wants to pronounce as n.i.l.m.e.n = not ni<men : wol as w.o.l not wo< (tone mark <) and the double vowel aa= in haanyul he wants to sound as h.a.a.n not han (tone mark ) chinese = people do not have this problem because they are used to using a non ph= onetic symbolic character system, and they see each character as one co= mplete sound including the tone that goes with it ,so they fail to se= e why westerners cannot think along the same lines. the problem is psyc= hological zhenyu not phonetic. hope this comment is helpful. saluta c= .d,

On 17 August 2010 06:44, Zhenyu lizhenyu_god@... wrote:

=

Duncan heh DJ Nilmen haol! Qilng yoong wol famihng d= e Biaodiaoo-Pinyin xiel Haanyul ba! Wol xialng kaankaan nilmen nehn= gfoul zhalngwoo!

Saluta! Lil Zheenyul(Li Zhenyu)

=

— In glosalist@yahoogroups.com <glosalist%40yahoogroups.com><gl= osalist% 40yahoogroups.com>, “Zhenyu”

<lizhenyu_god@> wrote:

Hello, Dear friends, In order to show tones of Chinese = Pinyin with tone markers for those who can write Pinyin, I created = 3 tone markers added into the original forms of Pinyin which are as= follows:

Plain Tone(/First Tone): Original Exp: a,= ao, -in, -ong

Up Tone(/Second Tone): Last vowel letter of = original + h Exp: ah, aoh, -ihn, -ohng

Up-down Tone= (/Third Tone): :Last vowel letter of original + l Exp: al, aol, -il= n, -olng

Down Tone(/Fourth Tone): Double the Last vowel let= ter of original Exp: aa, aoo, -iin, -oong

v instead= of original “=A8=B9” (U with two dots above like German)”

= Sentence Examples: Original: Wo shi Zhongguoren, wo lai zi Beijing.=

With Tone Markers:Wol shii Zhongguohrehn, wol laih zii Beiljing.

English:I am Chinese, I come from Beijing.

Spe;u-ci = neo sti-ma-boni Pinyin fu auxi ma-poli ami;qi du stude e uti Cina-lin= gua!

Hope this newly improved Pinyin will help more friends= who are learning and using Chinese!

Xiwaang zheege= e xin-gailjiin de Pinyin jiang bangzhuu geeng duo zheengzaii xuehxih = heh shilyoong Haanyul de pehngyoul. (Xiwang zhege xin-gaijin de Pin= yin jiang bangzhu geng duo zhengzai xuexi he shiyong Hanyu de pengy= ou.)

Saluta! Li Zhenyu

=

– C. D .

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– C. D .

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