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Re: [glosalist] phrases
Robin Fairbridge Gaskell (Robin Fairbridge Gaskell <drought-breaker@...>) on October 22, 2005
At 05:34 AM 10/14/05, sid pidd grafo:
dear robin
si in glosa u kefa verba es ultima in u frasu, que na habe “u melani ko plu longi auri kani” alo na loka plu “longi auri” po kefa? - “u melani kani ko plu longi auri”
if glosa is head last in a phrase, do we have “the black with long ears dog” or do we put the preposition phrase after the head word? “ths black dog with the long ears” syd
(Glosa Rules: 1. A word is modified by its preceding word. 2. Glosa sentences use Subject-Verb-Object structure. 3. Within phrases, ‘head final” structure applies.)
Karo Glosa-pe, The sequence Sid gives comprises two phrases:-
~u melani kani~ ..... A.
~ko plu longi auri~ ..... B.
As far as I can see, they are not one long, complex phrase, with ~kani~ as its 'head', but are, indeed, two phrases.
Phrase A. is the standard NOUN Phrase, which can be either the Subject or Object of a sentence.
Phrase B., on the other hand, is dependent on Phrase A.
Normally I would find B-class phrases as part of the general Object of a sentence. To avoid confusion, Phrase A. would be called the Direct Object, and Phrase B. would be an Indirect Object.
Since Phrase B. describes the ~kani~ it is a sort of Adjectival Phrase: ~ko~ = ~qi habe~. In Glosa the ~qi~ can be elided, with a ";" (Ajectival-clause-flag) sufficing.
Agreed, Phrases A. & B. could be part of a complex Subject, and this might cause trouble for our grammatical descriptions. However, I am inclined to play the ```English Usage``` card. Maybe the English language "with" is is an idiomatic usage that does not necessarily have to be imposed on Glosa translations.
I suspect that the 'Adjectival Phrase' understanding better covers this additional piece of descriptive information, and is a purer syntactic explanation of what is occuring. I suspect that using ~ko~ in such situations is more a borrowing from English usage than a correct translation into properly syntactic Glosa.
EG ~U melani kani ko plu longi auri pa casa u mega-metro bola.~
(Eng. A black dog with long ear(s) chased a large (sized) ball. )
~U melani kani; qi habe plu longi auri, pa casa u mega-metro bola.~
Elided: ~U melani kani; habe plu longi auri, pa casa u mega-metro bola.~
This is the case for rendering the "long-eared" information as a separate clause, not as some sort of Indirect Object or Indirect Subject.
However, adding the information as a compound adjective, we would place it before the word ~kani~.
EG ~U melani, longi-auri kani pa casa u mega-metro bola.~
(Eng. The black, long-eared dog chased a/the large ball. )
In Glosa, where syntax rules, I think we should ask, ‘How would a syntactically aware person express the idea?’
Saluta, Robin Gaskell
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