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Re: [glosalist] phrases

Robin Fairbridge Gaskell (Robin Fairbridge Gaskell <drought-breaker@...>) on October 22, 2005

At 05:34 AM 10/14/05, sid pidd grafo:

dear robin

si in glosa u kefa verba es ultima in u frasu, que na habe “u melani ko plu longi auri kani” alo na loka plu “longi auri” po kefa? - “u melani kani ko plu longi auri”

if glosa is head last in a phrase, do we have “the black with long ears dog” or do we put the preposition phrase after the head word? “ths black dog with the long ears” syd

(Glosa Rules: 1. A word is modified by its preceding word. 2. Glosa sentences use Subject-Verb-Object structure. 3. Within phrases, ‘head final” structure applies.)

Karo Glosa-pe, The sequence Sid gives comprises two phrases:-

       ~u melani kani~      .....  A.
       ~ko plu longi auri~  .....   B.

 As far as I can see, they are not one long, complex phrase, with  ~kani~ as its 'head', but are, indeed, two phrases.

 Phrase A. is the standard NOUN Phrase, which can be either the  Subject or Object of a sentence.

 Phrase B., on the other hand, is dependent on Phrase A.

 Normally I would find B-class phrases as part of the general  Object of a sentence.  To avoid confusion, Phrase A. would be called  the Direct Object, and  Phrase B. would be an Indirect Object.
 Since Phrase B. describes the ~kani~ it is a sort of Adjectival  Phrase: ~ko~  = ~qi habe~.  In Glosa the ~qi~ can be elided, with a  ";" (Ajectival-clause-flag) sufficing.

 Agreed, Phrases A. & B. could be part of a complex Subject, and  this might cause trouble for our grammatical descriptions.  However,  I am inclined to play the ```English Usage``` card.  Maybe the  English language "with" is is an idiomatic usage that does not  necessarily have to be imposed on Glosa translations.

  I suspect that the 'Adjectival Phrase' understanding better  covers this additional piece of descriptive information, and is a  purer syntactic explanation of what is occuring.  I suspect that  using ~ko~ in such situations is more a borrowing from English usage  than a correct translation into properly syntactic Glosa.

EG ~U melani kani ko plu longi auri pa casa u mega-metro bola.~

   (Eng. A black dog with long ear(s) chased a large (sized) ball. )

      ~U melani kani; qi habe plu longi auri, pa casa u mega-metro bola.~

Elided: ~U melani kani; habe plu longi auri, pa casa u mega-metro bola.~

 This is the case for rendering the "long-eared" information as a  separate clause, not as some sort of Indirect Object or Indirect Subject.

 However, adding the information as a compound adjective, we  would place it before the word ~kani~.

EG ~U melani, longi-auri kani pa casa u mega-metro bola.~

  (Eng.  The black, long-eared dog chased a/the large ball. )

In Glosa, where syntax rules, I think we should ask, ‘How would a syntactically aware person express the idea?’

Saluta, Robin Gaskell

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Re: [glosalist] phrases - Committee on language planning, FIAS. Coordination: Vergara & Hardy, PhDs.