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Re: [glosalist] Too much plainnnnnnessss
Robin Gaskell (Robin Gaskell <drought-breaker@...>) on February 29, 2004
At 08:35 PM 2/22/04 +0100, Igor Wasilewski pa grafo:
Saluta a plu lista-p= e,
T=F3th L=E1szl=F3 pa grafo:
Those expressions you have to learn in= advance, otherwise you will be incapable of using, understanding the Gl= osa.
“Mi dona auxi a mu”. - dona auxi =3D> it is an expression th= at you have to learn by all means, otherwise you will not be able to use= the Glosa.
....
Thanks for your comment. As far as the exp= ressions “dona auxi”, “dice u petitio” or “dice u qestio” are concerned, = I think they are not any additional study material to memorize. I use the= words “dona” or “dice” only according to logic, not because it is decide= d so. You can use a word “akti” instead of “dona” without any special cha= nge of its meaning. *** It seems to be a normal part of Glosa to use %give= help% %say a question% etc, rather than just use the bare word … as we= often do in English. I think Igor has the feel for the language her= e. I use the thought of sculpting in words.
The difference is betw= een the use of language in the 'abstract' by ccomparison with using a 'con= crete' form of speech.
Chinese, possibly the closest language to Glos= a in sentence construction, uses "unchanging characters" whereas Glosa has= the "unchanging words."
And most linguists will hail Chinese as a l= anguage capable of great poetry because of its subtlety and the more or le= ss abstract way its poets use the language.
However all Chinese peo= ple are not poets, and the Chinese person in the street learns his usage a= s a series of 'concrete' acts, but does so by memorising beautiful poetry = off by heart.
Similarly, Glosa can be treated as a rule-based commun= ication medium, which it really is not; or as a language that is sculpture= d from thought ... more or less directly. This second approach to the usa= ge of Glosa I call the "abstract" usage of language.
You also wrote:
= I think, there is only one thing that the Glosa should introduce: the = use of endings for marking the word class (for example: -o, -a, -e, -i = or other solution). This kind of using words will not change the basic = concept of the Glosa on the multi-sense of the words.
It seems that you= can see such a structure in Sasxsek language. *** Sadly I have no time le= ft in this life to study the wide range of designed languages, though abou= t twenty years ago I did attempt it. Having viewed the field, I decided t= hat Glosa was the shape of the future, or, at least, very close to it.
O= ne more thing: I have spent some time comparing the International Auxilia= ry Languages which may be regarded as isolating and I see they are really= very few. For example, Lingua Franca Nova, a quite popular IAL, has many= isolating features but it maintains the letter “s” to form the plural, i= t also uses special suffixes to form the active and passive participles a= nd it has some other useful affixes. I also took a closer look at a very i= nteresting language Sona and I see it is only partially isolating, with a= very sophisticated agglutinative system. In such comparison Glosa seems = to be completely isolating, so it is a quite unique IAL. The question is = not which grammar structure is the best. Every IAL has its advantages. An= interesting question here is why the IALs like Glosa are so few. *** Th= is matter of the rarity of Glosa-like languages is intriguing. T= here is a label for them; I invented it years ago: languages with syntax= -based grammar.
I believe there are a few possible explanations= for this rarity, but they all revolve around the concept of EVOLUTION. = 1. Is civilisation possibly evolving?
2. Could language usage on the = Planet possibly be evolving?
3. Does the ^survival of the fittest^ prin= ciple apply to the elements of language?
4. Do languages evolve?
5= . Can we say that some languages are more evolved than others?
6. Can w= e say that some designed languages are more evolved than others?
7. If = anything does, what might constitute the evolutionary characteristics of la= nguage?
I know what my answer is to all of the above, but for fear of = upsetting people, who might suspect that their national, or their native, = language is more primitive than other languages, I do not mention it here.=
While the possibility of the evolution of language should be a scie= ntific question, because of all of the elements of nationality and culture= associated with language, most Linguists adopt the safe position and quot= e the Politically Correct statement that no language is better than any ot= her.
Trying hard not to say "what rubbish," I would call upon Englis= h and Chinese to enter the witness-box.
Chinese has had the benefit = of millenia over which to evolve, and once had a complex morphological gra= mmar. The language that remains has a grammar that is fundamentally synta= x-based. There is an absolute minimum of words that are without semantic = meaning but which are retained for reasons of grammar.
English got = the pressure-cooker treatment: with a large number of linguistic invasions= , there was a rapid succession of linguistic flavours imposed on the islan= d and its population, and being an ornery lot, the Britons picked and chos= e from among the modes of usage that passed through their culture. Some p= eople, including me, would say that the linguistic features that had survi= val value were retained, while those with an unnecessary complexity were a= llowed to fall into disuse.
So English, which, of the European natio= nal languages, has the smallest number of inflections, has had what amount= s to greatest admixture of inputs, and thus, the greatest pressure for "su= rvival of the fittest" of the numerous imposed linguistic elements.
= Both of my witnesses, for greatly different, but undeniably evolutionary,= reasons are languages that have very little morphological grammar.
= Back to the question.
When people muse on the creation of planned = language, most look at what is presently in use - often in their own cultu= re - and improve upon it. Some, of course, go high tech, and decide tha= t in future we should all be communicating likre computers - in blips. =
So, without upsetting too many people, I can say that the vast majorit= y of language creators looked to see how the majority of national language= s were constructed. The big difference with Glosa, is that instead of loo= king towards the past, or even at the present, its authors projected langu= age use into the future.
This is where the story gets painful, not = for me but for my readers. Ron and Wendy took a fairly promising language= design - that of Interglossa - and melded it with a weather eye on the se= emingly highly evolved languages, English and Chinese, and gradually chang= ed Interglossa into Glossa, and then Glosa, streamlining it all the while = - pushing their creation through an even more extreme evolutionary process= than that which English had undergone.
The trouble with Glosa is = that the world is not ready for it yet: it is the shape of a human/compute= r interface, and has all of the elements of an idealised communication med= ium. However, it lacks the element of ^redundancy^ by which a number of l= inguistic elements combine to ensure that meaning does not rely on only a = single sound or letter. This could be a genuine fault. Also, there is th= e possibility that the human mind does carry an inbuilt tendency towards i= nflection; whether this is a genuine psychological need, or simply a pleas= ant, warm fuzzy feeling remains to be seen.
The biggest criticism = of Glosa, and also possibly the real explanation of the rarity of its ling= uistic specification, is that creative people speak better Glosa than less= creative ones. To be good at Glosa, it seems that a person needs a reaso= nable imagination. This possibly comes with Glosa being more of a 'concep= t-based' language, than a 'concrete-based' one.
Who would create = a designed language, and attempt to give it to the world, without providin= g a grammar book? Ron Clark did!
He thought that the human race ha= d enough savvy to listen to their own thoughts, and organise their spoken/= written language in accordance with these. Do we have to wait another cen= tury or two to see if his faith in humanity's innate ability to communicat= e was was well-founded, or not?
‘Fraid I won’t be around to find out,
Rob= in Gaskell
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