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Re: Stephan, Xavier
Xavier Abadia ("Xavier Abadia" <xabadiar@...>) on April 5, 2012
— In firstname.lastname@example.org, Ian Niles <ian_niles@…> w= rote:
I disagree with your criticisms of the GID, Xavier. I think w= e owe an enormous debt of gratitude to Marcel Springer and the other folks = who spent long hours culling through all of the Glosa resources to compile = this dictionary. It’s not perfect, but I believe that it’s on the same lev= el as a foreign language dictionary created by professional (and paid) lexi= cographers. Every time I translate one of Aesop’s fables, I rely on the GI= D and I am ever grateful for its clear, comprehensive guidance in all thing= s Glosa. By the way, you can find several issues of “Plu Glosa Nota” here: = http://www.glosa.org/pgn/index.html. -Ian
To: glosalist@yahoogroups= .com From: xabadiar@… Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 11:22:38 +0000 Subject:= [glosalist] Re: Stephan, Xavier
Absolu= tely, Ian. My criticism is especially against the GID dictionary, for not s= howing a clear standard of the language. The lack of a standard is a seriou= s handicap to an auxiliary language. Instead, the GID seems to gather blind= ly the vocabulary of all the subsequent dictionaries of Clark and Ashby. I = wonder what "significant body of content" was taken as the basis of the GID= . Maybe "Plu Glosa Nota"? By the way, I wish I could find "Plu Glosa Nota" = online.
— In email@example.com, Ian Ni= les <ian_niles@> wrote:
A couple of comments. I thin= k we can all agree that, all thing being equal, it is preferable for a deri= vation scheme for words of an IAL to be based on ancient Greek/Latin roots = (a la LsF), rather than on a set of English words. For one thing, if we su= ppose that all speakers of a given IAL are fluent in English, then there is= of course no point to an IAL. For another thing, the words of many modern= languages are often systematically derived from ancient Greek/Latin, so if= you know how words in your language are derived from ancient Greek/Latin a= nd there is a derivation rule from the classical roots to the IAL, you can = generate a good body of vocabulary for the IAL automatically, regardless of= which modern European language you start from. Incidentally, this is one = feature I really like about Occidental/Interlingue. That being said, any = convincing proposal to revise a language, whether a natural language or an = IAL, does not come in the form of an edict. It comes in the form of a sign= ficant body of content that is expressed using the revised version of the l= anguage. This can be seen as the experimental justification for the propos= al, and the community (or a community) can judge whether or not it’s an imp= rovent over the original version. -Ian
To: glosalist@yahoogr= oups.com
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:05:28 -05= 00
Subject: [glosalist] Stephan, Xavier
= STEPHAN: Do you mean, you can’t remember Latin endings, the endings I =
proposed or (some) Glosa endings?
= REAKTI: I used to be fairly fluent in Russian and German. No more!
Languages are like most other things in life: They’re a lot easie= r
when you’re young. I still remember Glosa - mostly. I’m no= t even sure
my own name ends in Y anymore. :-)
STEPHAN: And, what is the easiest? Root ending derivation= rules like
the ones I propose wouldn’t make Glosa (or Glota= ) any more difficult,
because you don’t need to learn them (= they are not productive as in
Esperanto). You just need to k= now that “hand” is “manu” and not “mani”
(as in “manipulate”= ), and that “nati” is “birth” and that “natio” is
“nation” a= nd not the other way round. That is the same “easiest” as
be= fore, isn’t it? Glosa words like “manu”, “nati” and “natio” are the
same in Glota (my dialect). But they do follow root ending derivati= on
rules, which shows that Glosa could have had them, too, a= nd in some
cases even gives the impression of having them.
REAKTI: The one you remember is the easiest. = It’s like this: Glosa
derives its vocabulary from modern Lat= in and Greek
scientific/technical words. MANU is the preferr= ed Glosa word. If I
can’t remember MANU, but I remember the = English word MANIPULATE and
derive the word as MANI instead,= I have not made a mistake. I like not
making mistakes. :-)
XAVIER: it’s natural that this discussion is= happening on and on.
People may get astonished at the dicti= onary (as I did) when they find
many translations for a cert= ain word, some just differing on the final
vowel! This way t= he morphology of the language may look chaotic. Of
course th= is may be due to the early Glosa textbooks. Anyway, the
prob= lem remains.
REAKTI: When one realizes that = Glosa words are derived from varying
words from varying lang= uages, one would expect the ends of the Glosa
words to vary = too.
XAVIER: In my viewpoint are three optio= ns:
- Since the final vowel is not importan= t, and it is only there to
ease pronunciation, so let’s give= a certain final vowel to all words.
-E is the characteristi= c vowel of the main Latin declension (the 3rd)
and it is the= characteristic ending of verbs, at their infinitive -re.
I = am really testing this -E option with a reformed Latino Sine
REAKTI: I would argue that there = is no characteristic vowel in the
original Latin. Latin spea= kers themselves added the E to make
pronunciation easy. This= E is often unstressed in the original Latin,
is missing in = such forms as ESSE and FERRE and FAC and DIC. I agree
that a= dding the E in man-made language plans is a good idea.
Different international lan= guage plans have used different means of
obtaining their bas= e vocabulary. LSF did this directly from Latin,
Esperanto fr= om a mix of modern Romance and Germanic words, Glosa from
mo= dern scientific/technical terms, Lojban from languages all over the
world. There is nothing wrong with any of these plans, they are sim= ply
Good luck with= Glota! Maybe it will finally be the right one. You’ll
find = there is no shortage of critics out there. :-) But the real trick
is to get people to USE the language. Most people who criticize these=
languages rarely read or write more than a few sentences.
When I started studying the international lan= guage problem, I wanted
to test the languages by using them.= (I still use LSF a little; see
groups.yahoo.com/group/latin= osineflexione.) Glosa was the one I
learned the fastest. I a= lso feel it most freely expresses ideas.
Eve= n more important is support. No international language will be
= successful without a group of people actively promoting it. Esperanto =
has the most support, therefore it is the one most people hear= about.
[Non-tex= t portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text = portions of this message have been removed]
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